Hi Everyone again,

I have 3 more question.

1. At what age can a father start taking the child away from her primary residence?

2. The father of my 11months daughter is refusing to take part in mediation. He has been sending me emails that are very hurtful. I would try and reason with him but to no avail. I finally decided maybe we need someone outside the two of us to help us understand what is important is the well being of the child and not what we feel about each other. This afternoon he turned that offer down saying Family advocates give orders that he apparently wont like. Now I would like to know if I can go ahead and speak to the family advocate on my own and draw up a visitation plan.

3. How do restraining orders work in cases where people have a child together? Whatever happens I need to make sure that he is allowed to see my daughter because it is in her best interest.

Hi, both of you.

It does sound as though there some great challenges facing you both. We'd like to encourage other forum users to offer some constructive advice, and hope that there's a resolution to your questions. Of course, should you guys be facing court action, it would be wise not to engage too much in a public forum, which is why we have only posted two of your comments so far.

All the best,

Parent24 Team

Hi Alex - good idea/concept! I only wish we could somehow convince people to actually give it a good 'go'!


There is something else that is very important, though - from the first posting it appears that the mother is viewing her role as a 'maternal, custodial, dictatorial'-type role - in other words, she is apparently attempting to dictate to the father on what terms, conditions, and under which circumstances he may have access to his child - literally, only IF she allows it. Simply, it seems that she is labouring under the misconception that she enjoys the benefits of what used to be the generally accepted "maternal preference rule" - something that has basically been rendered 'extinct' by the new and vastly improved Children's Act now in force.

And it is imperative that these parents - both the father and the mother - familiarise themselves with the contents of the Children's Act as it currently stands, particularly Section 35.1
viz.




Please note SPECIFICALLY this last bit: is guilty of an offence and liable on conviction to a fine or to imprisonment for a period not exceeding one year.
Anybody want to go looking for a new job with a criminal record?

Lungy, your original post is at odds with this latest posting. If the latest posting had been your first, you would have no problems.

However:

You asked "At what age can a father start taking the child away from her primary residence?". Now I'm not psychic, but I AM able to read and understand English, and in the context of your posting and the reply from your ex, it is obvious that there was some disagreement about the father taking his child away for visits. The fact of the matter is that he can take his child anywhere he likes at any age - providing that the child's needs are adequately catered for. There is no maternal preference rule any more, and you have no right to limit the father's access to his child, no matter WHAT the child's age.

You then asked whether you could consult the Family Advocate on your own to set up a visitation plan - there is no such animal. There is, though, a PARENTING PLAN! Again, it would seem that you are under the impression that you can grant (or deny) visitation rights. And again, it is obvious that there is some reference within your query to the outdated and now non-existent maternal preference rule. Of course, refusal to mediate is frowned upon, as it is in contradiction to the provisions of the Children's Act, which states that mediation must be attempted before litigation is instigated. But you can't just jump about from pillar to post and try to get things done to suit yourself - there is a recognised procedure in place, and you need to follow this.

And then, of course, you asked about how restraining orders work. If that isn't indicative of somebody who, on the spur on the moment in the heat of an argument has threatened the other parent with a restraining order, and is now wondering how to carry out that threat, then nothing is. Let me just warn you that, with regards to restraining orders and the like, the ONLY people who will profit by this ceaseless arguing between you and your ex will be the lawyers and attorneys.

Now I am not only friends with an attorney (a rare creature, this one - he's honest and ethical!), but also in business with him. And I have seen first-hand how people, concerned only with their pride, and with forcing the other person to do what THEY want, regardless of the consequences - and most especially ignoring the real needs and wants of the child(ren) - senselessly and stupidly (yes, STUPIDLY!) throw their money straight into the attorneys' bank accounts, pursuing litigation when a little humility and humanity would produce a lot more positive results, particularly for the children. This stupidity is further compounded by unethical attorneys and lawyers (LOTS of those out there!), as well as 'friends' who tell you how you can do this or that - because they know somebody who did it and won - and get away with it. When these 'friends' and family turn out to be wrong, and you lose the case, who pays the price? Your CHILD!
EVERY CENT you spend on attorneys could be better spent on your child.
How many nappies, or how much formula could R3000-00 (an average attorney's fee for an average matter) buy for your child?

The best advice I can give you is to just cool it down. Stop adding fuel to the fire, stop making threats (idle or otherwise), stop insulting the other party, stop listening to your friends and family, stop taking advice from lawyers and attorneys who only care about profits and don't even know the Children's Act properly. Stop pretending that you (and ONLY you!) know exactly what is best for the child - only two consenting, cooperating, concerned parents who each have the child's best interests at heart can decide what that is. Normally by working together for the good of the child, and ignoring their own hurt feelings and past injustices, real OR imagined.

Above all, stop thinking about yourself.

Put your child and your child's best interests first - no matter HOW hurt you are feeling, no matter HOW angry you are, no matter HOW good you will feel if you win a particular battle.

Because every time you and your ex fight, your child loses.

Heck, come on over to www.section35.co.za and meet other parents and even grandparents who are fighting for the best for their children and grandchildren.

When you became parents, you and your ex took on a great responsibility. You promised to do the very best you possibly could for your child, or die in the attempt - not so? If not, then your child doesn't come first in your life, and you don't REALLY care about doing what is best for your child.
Judging by both of your (mom and dad) postings here, you would, if the occasion demanded it, take a bullet for your child, wouldn't you?
The anger and bitterness you are both displaying is the result of hurt - understandable, but honestly, right now, NOT in the child's best interests.

Here you and your ex are fighting about when each gets to see the child? Fighting about how much money one of you must pay? Fighting about greeting each other when fetching or dropping off the child?

Come on, get some perspective. Put the child first. Stop playing games with each other.

Every child deserves loving parents. Loving parents don't play games with their child's life, with their child's future, with their child's happiness. Just take a step back, take a deep breath, calm down, and start treating each other like human beings - human beings who may once have loved each other, and perhaps still do, but who don't want to stay together. And, for the sake of this little girl that you BOTH love, just be nice to each other.

I promise you one thing - being nice to each other isn't going to kill either of you.

Just try it.

Lungy, I'm humbled by your faith in me - and of course I would be willing to help if I could. The best place to get hold of me is via PM (personal message) here or on the www.section35.co.za website.

You'll also find Alex on Section35, as well as a LOT of other people far wiser and better qualified than me to help. I'm sure at least one of us will be able to assist - there is no problem in this world that cannot be solved if the parties involved are willing to talk about things with a view to resolving the difficulties. I get the feeling (correct me if I'm wrong) that you and your ex are only battling to talk because both of you are feeling so very hurt, and as a result of that hurt, very angry.

Just one caveat - we're not professional mediators or anything like that: If you want professional mediation, we can point you in the right direction, and suggest to you whom to use and whom to avoid. The same thing with attorneys. Our only "qualification" is that we are all parents, all battling with the problems of access, care, and maintenance - just like you. We share our experiences to help each other - and through that we may be able to help you too. But there are no guarantees - we can only tell you what has worked for us, and what hasn't.

To tell the truth, if I had had access to a place and people like the Section35 website 18 years ago, my life over the last 18 years would have been a whole lot happier, if not easier... The laws are WAY better and fairer now than they used to be, but even just knowing you're not alone will make life a lot easier for you and your child.