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Kidnapping accusations
The Hogg
#1 Posted : Friday, October 21, 2011 9:23:11 AM(UTC)
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Hi Everyone,

I am sitting in a very delicate situation. I have received a e mail from our son's mother that she freaks out when I bring our son back after our weekend after 17:00 (the last 6 months I have had him back at home at 16:00 -16:30, and our parentplan stipulates 18:00) because she doesnt know when I am going to kidnap our son.

My son asks me everytime he wants me to pick him up at school when I come fetch him every alternative weekend, his mom says she told him and myself no numerous times as the school dont allow dads to pick up kids from school when they stay at their mom. Dads kidnap children.

Can I go to the police station and lay charges for these accusations?

The Hogg
#2 Posted : Friday, October 21, 2011 12:05:17 PM(UTC)
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OR rather what is the best option to handle this?

I mean I would never even think of kidnapping my own son and I would have no reason to do so?

This is not the first time this has happened.
Tom
#3 Posted : Monday, October 24, 2011 1:18:59 PM(UTC)
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Get yourself on over to www.section35.co.za

This is pure and simple Malicious Mother Syndrome (MMS) and Parental Alienation Syndrome (PAS) - and you need to take drastic steps regarding this situation, with no delay whatsoever.

More than ANYTHING else, this is slander/crimen-injuria - you (and all the rest of we divorced fathers out there) are being accused of being criminals.

What happened to our constitutional right to be considered innocent of any and all charges until proven guilty?


ConcernedMom
#4 Posted : Monday, October 24, 2011 2:24:25 PM(UTC)
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I am not saying she is right by any means but please take a moment and put yourself in her shoes. Someone has obviously told her about a situation like that or she has read it etc. The thought of losing a child is a mother's worst nightmare. Please remember we carry this little life in our bodies for 9months, so for most moms even just going back to work and being separated from your child is torture.

I am only telling you this to explain her over-reaction. Why don't you try and talk to her. Try to reassure her. Not all accusations come from spite, most come from FEAR!
Tom
#7 Posted : Monday, October 24, 2011 2:54:04 PM(UTC)
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Concerned Mom, let's just cut through all the bulldust here:

Fathers are no more likely (or less, for that matter) to break the law than mothers. There is ABSOLUTELY NO JUSTIFICATION for accusing fathers in general of being criminals, or even of intending to commit a criminal act.

Carrying a child in your womb doesn't make you more or less of a parent than the father. There are different roles for each parent to play - are you trying to suggest that the role a father plays is somehow less significant than that played by the mother? That constitutes gender bias in terms of the law: BOTH parents are equally responsible for the child IN ALL WAYS - and the part each plays specifically in procreation is not subject to YOUR interpretation of the significance thereof.
What you're basically saying is that fathers can't POSSIBLY love their child as much as the mother does - and that, I'm afraid, is a 'terminological inexactitude', as Winston Churchill famously said. How can you POSSIBLY quantify the love of a father for his child?

Fear, on the other hand, is nothing but a reaction to the unknown - we fear most that which we do not understand. And the answer TO such a lack of understanding is to communicate, to reach out, and to attempt to build bridges so that there is no miscommunication, no lack of understanding, and no doubt as to the motives of the other party. Obviously, in this case, the mother has foregone this easy solution to her 'problem' and chooses instead to live in ignorance and therefore fear. To condone this by saying it is 'normal' and somehow 'acceptable' is to say that it is perfectly all right to exist in a self-inflicted state of fear and uncertainty - a situation which is patently NOT correct, NOT desirable, and most certainly NOT conducive to happiness for the party concerned.

I understand what you're saying - that there is this element of fear - but I most certainly don't accept it as an excuse for this obviously abusive behaviour towards her ex-husband and their child!
Under Section 35(1) of the Children's Act her actions might very easily be construed as inhibiting or preventing the free and unfettered access of the child to BOTH parents - an infringement which may just nett her a R20,000-00 fine or a year in jail.
Thing is, if you're ill, you go to see a doctor, you get yourself diagnosed and you get the medicine for your condition, you take it and you get well.
You don't sit in a dark corner and pretend that the WORLD is sick, you're just fine, and the world needs to adapt to your condition.
Just so with this mother - she needs to deal with her fears and get over them, or she WILL end up in breach of the law. And I don't believe that is the best way forward for her, for her ex-husband, or for their child.

Most importantly, she is damaging their child through these accusations and fears. And that must NOT be allowed to continue unchecked and unchallenged.


Whatsamatta
#8 Posted : Monday, October 24, 2011 10:05:36 PM(UTC)
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You need to realize that your son and his mother are a package you treat the one as you would the other. Your wife needs to do the same, anything less is bad for the kid.The greatest gift a man can give his children is to love their mother (divorced or not). I doubt though by your account that your ex is capable of this attitude. My ex did the same and now she is doing it with our grand daughter. Some women have it in their genes. Good luck.
The Hogg
#10 Posted : Tuesday, October 25, 2011 7:02:08 AM(UTC)
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Hi Everyone,

@ Concernedmom, Thnks for your reply. However, It has been 3 years plus that all I hear is about our son being in her womb for 9mnths etc, " fathers arent allowed to pick up children at the creche/school if the kids stay with the mother, the schools dont allow it because fathers kidnap children" " You dont get parenting" I and me ... me and myself .. I ...I ...I - its seldom that its ever about our son. I phone him every second day, I phone her to find out how are things at school etc. We caught our first fish together two weekends back, that is something a man/husband cant explain to a woman/mom or even the ex/mother of your child. That is something so pure and so special, I never bad mouthed her or rubbed it in or made bad comments.

This is what I have to deal with on a daily basis. The mother of our son is now pregnant with her 6th boyfriend, has moved 4 times with two different men, was engaged twice all in a space of 3 years. No I hear stories from my son that her ex boyfriend beat our son with a belt (he was 3 years old at the time) - yes I know he is just 4 years old now and " you cant always believe what a 4 year old says" ... but what if ?

Luckily I have taken the first steps a few months ago, unfortunately the system does tend to take its own time. I am still considering laying a charges at the police station, I am sick and tired of being told what and where I should spend time with my son or else..

I have even been threatened in the past that if I take my son out of Pta she would put the cops on me because my girlfriend stayed in jhb at the time. (We are still together and living together) Because she was/still is jealous.

Fear comes from the devil!!! I will not allow him to come into my life and our home and destroy what is GOOD.

Each case and family is different and experience things differently and on diff. levels. THis is just my side of the story, but I can honestly say it is the truth and very recent.

Why cant parents just get along for the sake of the children? YES!! REALLY why cant they????
The Hogg
#5 Posted : Tuesday, October 25, 2011 7:21:28 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ConcernedMom Go to Quoted Post
I am not saying she is right by any means but please take a moment and put yourself in her shoes. Someone has obviously told her about a situation like that or she has read it etc. The thought of losing a child is a mother's worst nightmare. Please remember we carry this little life in our bodies for 9months, so for most moms even just going back to work and being separated from your child is torture.

I am only telling you this to explain her over-reaction. Why don't you try and talk to her. Try to reassure her. Not all accusations come from spite, most come from FEAR!


@ concernedMom, I truly appreciate your input.

Just understand from a fathers point of view, We live in a sick twisted world. We see it everyday. We read and hear of children being raped and molested and killed.

If she read or see something on the news or hear a story from a friend, it doesn't mean that the father of your child is going to kill or rape or in this case kidnap your child. One cannot go and make accusations left and right just because out of fear and something you read or heard about. There are ways and means of showing ones concerns as parents that is at the BEST INTEREST OF THE CHILD.

I have asked now for my ex if we can properly meet and get to know her newest boyfriend seeing that she now pregnant. Our son lives under their(his) roof and I would like to know him in person. Just like all the other men she brought home to and lived with, with our son.

There is a way of doing things that is not harmful to the children and we all are adults and to act accordingly.
ConcernedMom
#11 Posted : Tuesday, October 25, 2011 7:36:38 AM(UTC)
ConcernedMom

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Hi Tom. I did not condone her actions in any way. I simply tried to give a possible reason for her actions, and suggested COMMUNICATION. I don't understand why you would assume anything else. I mentioned the fact that we carry a child and begin to bond with them from the word go to explain where the fear comes from, I never once said or suggested a father's love is any less.

The father states that he received an email from her saying how she felt "freaked out" when he brings the child home at 17h00. I don't recall her calling him a criminal, so she was reaching out.

Instead of talking to one another he wants to lay criminal charges and she thinks he will run away from the child. The solution is communication and keeping the best interests of the child AT THE TOP of the priority list before any decision is made or action taken.

Each parent should put their hurt and feelings aside and remember that the relationship the child has with the other parent is not the same relationship they have with one another. The child loves them both.

You and I can make assumptions and suggestions until the cows come home, the fact remains the FEAR is real for both parents and the only way to take that away is that each parent TRUSTS that the other parent has the child's best interests at heart. This is not an easy thing. It will not be accomplished by laying charges etc.... but through open communication.

My advise is first try and talk things out, build trust, and lead by example.

Tom
#12 Posted : Tuesday, October 25, 2011 11:55:52 AM(UTC)
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@Concerned Mom:
Please, PLEASE PLEASE go back and read EXACTLY what I wrote.

Accusing a man of wanting to kidnap his OWN child, is accusing him of planning to commit a crime. Do you think that somebody planning to commit a crime should be allowed to commit it before the police can do something about it? Or should they be prevented from committing that crime? If the latter, how would you prosecute?

BUT!!!! If you are guilty of falsely accusing somebody of planning to commit a crime, and doing so maliciously and with evil intent, then are you yourself not guilty of a crime?
Just for starters: You are slandering his good name, you are sowing distrust between him and his child, and you are casting him in a criminal light. Should that not be punishable by law?
Seems to me it should be, and it is!

It appears to me that all you're doing is defending the indefensible - this woman (mother?) should either get herself some psychiatric help to deal with her personal issues, or start talking with her ex-husband to get over her unfounded fears. Perhaps a really good start would be for her to stop reading the trashy magazines that do nothing but sensationalise things that often didn't even happen, and to stop listening to the gossip and email that flies around the office, mostly intended to scare gullible individuals - www.snopes.com is often a very good source for checking out alarmist emails, incidentally. But MOST importantly, she should be putting her child's best interests first. And that DOESN'T include telling the child that daddy is going to kidnap him!

Heck, she's been involved with HOW MANY men since the divorce? Engaged to how many? Moved how many times? Lived with how many different men?
To refresh your memory:
Quote:
The mother of our son is now pregnant with her 6th boyfriend, has moved 4 times with two different men, was engaged twice all in a space of 3 years

From what I can see, the Hogg has been involved for most of the last 3 years with only one other person, his then girlfriend and now live-in partner.
And you still think the mother in question is the best person for the job of parenting this child?


Here's a wake-up call: the old maternal preference rule is dead. Gone. Buried.
The new Children's Act is in force.
And the Constitution backs it up to the hilt.
BOTH parents have equal rights and responsibilities with regard to their child.
And ANY person who obstructs a child's access to either of that child's parents, is in contravention of the law.

The best parent for the job is actually the one who is demonstrably the most stable, balanced, and mature.

I'm REALLY not seeing this particular mother in that role.

I'm not even seeing her here on this forum, seeking help for her insecurities and issues, trying to find out how to deal with her fear of everything that she can't personally control, or how to behave more reasonably and legally towards her ex-husband, the father of their child.

But I AM seeing the Hogg here - seeking assistance, trying to resolve the issues, and doing his best to be a good parent.

On the balance of probabilities, my money is on the Hogg...

But then, I don't suppose logic and reasonableness is going to count too heavily in my favour. After all, I'm a man and therefore, according to the Hogg's ex, a potential kidnapper and (thereby) a criminal. Gee, but the life of a criminal is hard and unrewarding... I guess they were right when they told me "Crime doesn't pay"............
The Hogg
#13 Posted : Tuesday, October 25, 2011 12:47:44 PM(UTC)
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Hi ConcernedMom,

I hear exactly what you are saying, and I appreciate the advice and opinion.

Communication is key, I agree. Unfortunately, all communication was denied very early on and it always ends up one way. her way or no way.

The last thing that I would want to to is lay criminal charges, but when is this going to stop? How long must our relationship (me and my son) suffer not from her fear, but from her insecurities?

I may not take him for a burger because I might kidnap him, I am not allowed to pick him up at school (on his request) because I might kidnap him. But I have had him every second weekend for the past 3½ years.

Anyways, I thank you all for your opinions. Think there ain't much to discuss anything further on this topic. Awaiting a call from the family advocate for a date to consult with them (both parties). I pray to God that this would end the 3½ year battle to be allowed to be more active and apart of my sons life.
Tom
#14 Posted : Tuesday, October 25, 2011 1:09:17 PM(UTC)
T0M

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Ok, I take it the moderator(s) didn't like my previous reply.

Let me repeat: Please, please PLEASE re-read my posting. I'm not against 'you' per se, but I AM FIGHTING FOR THE RIGHTS OF THE CHILD!

The child does not deserve to have his mother accuse his father (and all other men) of being criminals who kidnap children - this is fear-mongering and abuse of the child, as well as a deliberate attempt to damage the relationship between father and child.
This is in contravention of Section 35(1) of the Children's Act.

On the face of it, let's be honest, the mother doesn't seem to be doing all that well - in three years she's had HOW MANY failed relationships? Looks like she missed the class where they taught her about 'communication' - and that's generally why so many consecutive relationships go west: lack of communication.

Looks like we done found the culprit, ossifer!
ConcernedMom
#15 Posted : Tuesday, October 25, 2011 2:11:13 PM(UTC)
ConcernedMom

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Wow Tom, take a breath!!!!. I only saw the post about her past after I had posted my post.

@ The Hogg - I think you are doing exactly the right thing by consulting with the Family Advocate. I wish you all the best. Your son knows just how much you love him. If you keep your side of things above board he will respect you and soon see who has his best interests at heart.
Tom
#16 Posted : Tuesday, October 25, 2011 3:31:36 PM(UTC)
T0M

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hehehe - no worries, ConcernedMom, it took quite a (long) while for the posts to actually pass moderation... hence my belief that it didn't get approved by the moderators for some reason.

Actually, I believe you have the right kind of attitude - nobody is ALL bad, and most of the time the people who are causing all this heartache and grief for everybody else are themselves in a very unhappy place. Not that I think they should be allowed to inflict their own misery on others, but it IS understandable, to a certain degree.

Feel free to pop across to the section 35 website - you'll be amazed at how many people are being helped there. And well over a third of the members that side are mothers - Section 35(1) of the Children's Act is all about the children, and about the rights of those children to have free and unfettered access to BOTH parents. So the members on Section35 are serious about putting their children first - regardless of their own gender.

Which is, I dare say, exactly as it should be.
ConcernedMom
#17 Posted : Wednesday, October 26, 2011 6:56:10 AM(UTC)
ConcernedMom

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Hi Tom,

Thanks, I will do that. I have been through hell and back with the father of my daughter, but I can say one thing, he might be a bastard to me but he loves his daughter and that is the most important thing.
#6 Posted : Wednesday, October 26, 2011 8:47:49 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 12354029227650833107 Go to Quoted Post
[quote=ConcernedMom;31110]I am not saying she is right by any means but please take a moment and put yourself in her shoes. Someone has obviously told her about a situation like that or she has read it etc. The thought of losing a child is a mother's worst nightmare. Please remember we carry this little life in our bodies for 9months, so for most moms even just going back to work and being separated from your child is torture.

I am only telling you this to explain her over-reaction. Why don't you try and talk to her. Try to reassure her. Not all accusations come from spite, most come from FEAR!


Sorry ConcernedMom, but if you aren't able to process reality in a way that doesn't leave you hysterically paranoid in a way that is literally damaging to your own child and broader family, then that probably means you are mentally ill. It's either mental illness, or she is being malicious, it's one of those two things. You don't get to inflict criminal damage on others just because you read about a situation and become hysterical.
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