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rushdicpt wrote:Please email me rushdicpt at gmail dot com with updates on your campaign.
my partner and i (both male) plan to adopt in 2011. one of us works for the state, the other for media24. i am yet to properly investigate media24's policy re paternity leave, but i've had unofficial answers varying from "a few days" to "a few weeks".
while the thought of leaving baby at home after "mom's" tradition 3-month leave is traumatic enough (poor mommy!), the thought of both my partner and i returning to work after "a few days" or "a few weeks" of paternity leave is heartbreaking enough for us to think that one of us will have to quit our jobs if "a few days" or "a few weeks" is all we can get from our employers.
this discimination between mommy and daddy is clearly unconstitutional and i've been hoping someone would take up the fight. thankyou for doing so, and please keep me updated so that i can add my name to your case if we need to go that far!
surely in the case of two daddies/ two mommies, the two employers can communicate with each other and the two daddies/ two mommies can decide which one is going to take the extended maternity leave given to new moms?
Hope you manage to swing something, because as you say, a few weeks with your new baby is really not enough. I suppose you might have to take turns taking leave, but that seems unfair as you also need to spend time together as new parents.
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How fortunate are you that your company has such excellent staff that they are missed when they go on extended leave. Treat them well and make sure that their needs are taken care of like they take care of your companies needs. Would be much better to have 4 happy staff members working hard than having unhappy useless staff members!?!
Fathers should take the role that they play in their kids life more serious start bonding the moment baby arrives it will not do at all and you will miss out on a lot if you do leave it for later. Best of luck and enjoy every moment to all of these wonderful fathers wanting to be part of their babies first experiences of life!
C
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Guest wrote:To Parent24ed, which country do you live in that you think most people only have 1 or 2 children? In countries where they have a negative population growth rate it makes sense to incentivise people to make babies, but in Africa where we have more mouths than we could ever hope to feed, do you think thats wise? The last thing we need to do is encourage men (especially in Africa where marriage is not a requirement for sowing your oats left right and centre) to make more babies. Think about this from an economy point of view and an African point of view, which is where we live and men are allowed to have as many wives as they want. What will happen to the profitability of companies if they have to give 4 weeks paid leave to every guy in this country?
I know its tough for guys who genuinely want to be there to support their wives and new borns, but honestly what percentage of South African men will not just abuse this? You're right, of course, I was thinking in terms of the online audience who would have access to this forum.
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This I found on The Department of Labours website taken out of The Basic Conditions of Employment act. So the min they must give you by law is 3days. Goodluck
Family responsibility leave
27. (1) This section applies to an employee—
(a) who has been in employment with an employer for longer than four months;
and
(b) who works for at least four days a week for that employer.
(2) An employer must grant an employee, during each annual leave cycle, at the
request of the employee, three days’ paid leave, which the employee is entitled to take—
(a) when the employee’s child is born;
(b) when the employee’s child is sick; or
6.
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I agree that 3 days is a bit short for when your baby is born, keeping in mind that your wife will also need you a day or so before she gives birth?? ( As far as I know, the 3 days have been changed to 5 in the begining of the the year)
That said, keep the following in mind:
On a yearly basis your employer pays you your 12 monthly salaries + your bonus (this is also debatable as in most companies these days this is a given and not a performance bonus), thus receiving 13 paychecks a year.
Then you receive 21 days annual leave, 3/5 days family responsabilty leave, 36 days sick leave per 3 year cycle ( in effect giving you 12 days per year).
This means that the employer has to pay the employee for (21 + 3 + 12) = 36 days for which he is not at work!! That is more than a month and half of workdays!! So from an employers perspective it would be ludacris to add another 2/3/4 weeks pertinity leave to an employees leave cycle and still receive a 13 cheque!
I believe the solution lies with the sick leave as I can not remember when last I have been away from work for more than 2 days. 12 days per year/ 36 per 3 month cycle is to much, so if you could have less sickleave and more FRL, this could resolve the problem??????
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Revive I hope you succeed with this. My daughter was born premature last week. I only got 3 days. She's gonna be in ICU for another 3 weeks - and I only get to see her once each week day (after work) :( --I'm saving my annual leave for when she's home...
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I am all in favour of paternity leave AS LONG AS new dads don't use it as an excuse to park off at home and DO ACTUALLY help his wife with the baby. Sometimes having husbands at home is twice the amount of work as just having one little baby to look after eg What's with husbands staying at home on Women's Day?
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Guest wrote:Revive I hope you succeed with this. My daughter was born premature last week. I only got 3 days. She's gonna be in ICU for another 3 weeks - and I only get to see her once each week day (after work) :( --I'm saving my annual leave for when she's home... Phew that is hectic. But your baby and partner will need you all the more once she's home, so I think you've made a good choice.
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Some years ago, Old Mutual was one of the first companies to introduce paternity leave. One of the workers at the Pinelands office requested that and left for his home in the old Transkei. Upon returning, the HR officer excitedly asked him if it was a boy or a girl, to which he replied: "I don't know. We'll have to wait nine months to see." Now there's a man who knows how to use his time wisely!
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ESKOM has 14 days contingency leave annually, which can be used for partenity duties. The very same 14 days contingency leave is also used for other serious stuff like death in the family or child sickness. If 4 days are already used for maybe child sickness, that means only 10 days will be available for that year. The trick is if one is expecting a child in a certain year, one has to plan around those 14 days by maybe utilising the 21 days compulsory annual leave days for other seriouss stuff. if not used, the 14 days are forfeited and a new 14 day balance credited.
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For what it's worth, I read something today about leave policies in the USA, and I was amazed that they do not even have legislated sick leave! I thought we were fairly backward, but it seems our labour laws and requirements are not that far off the mark.
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You are pathetic and probabably just plain lazy for wanting to sit at home after your wife gave birth - surely beeing there every evening , mornings and weekends is more than enough ... what do you really want to do - sit and stare at the new baby all the time ? get a life and grow up you immature little wimp - every day millions are born - do you really want the world to come to a standstill due to your pathetic view on so-called paternity leave
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so basically you are looking for more days off from work, so you can get paid for nothing
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THis is such an interesting topic!
why not research what the uk gives as well? i know for maternity leave in the uk it is even close to 9 months!!! south africa is in the stone ages when it comes to this kind of thing. very sad.
a dad needs to be there! i am a mommy but would have loved to have had my husband with me during my materinty leave. especially in the beginning...
i think both the maternity and paternity benefits in South africa are shoking and need to be revised....
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If your child birth is so important to you, why not sacrifice your annual leave, for this once in a lfe time event.
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After watching Sicko by Michael Moore, I was shocked to see how countries differed in offering maternity and paternity leave. I had my first child last year whilst working at FNB and was given 5 days paternity leave. But seeing the ordeal that my wife experienced after the birth, I took an extra 10 days annual leave to ensure that she could recuperate whilst we both tried to get used to the experience of being parents for the first time. I this day and age I think it's important for fathers to also bond with their children as well. 5 days is not nearly as enough, and although I would looove 4 weeks, I think 2 weeks should be fair enough for most fathers!
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Revive and all the other new daddies/to be,
Who is giving birth to this child? You or your wife? You are just going to be in her way all the time. Or maybe not. Maybe you've got something else planned and just need a couple of days of! In my days there were no paternity leave. Anyway I couldn't wait to get to work in the morning to get away from dirty diaphers and bottles and that screaming! Wow, you dunno what you let yourself in for.
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I have 2 kids, both of whom are very close to their father, but he never took more than 5 days leave (which had to come out of his annual leave) for either of them. As a business owner, I don't really see why it is the company's responsibility to grant more than 5 days paternity leave for a father. Who is going to pay the salary of the replacement staff-member? And we get slated for having to push up prices to cover this sort of issue!! Please be reasonable!!
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Between the idiots trolling for arguments, the old-school chauvinists stuck in the 50’s and the hard-core moms who don’t need a man to do anything (except maybe pay the bills), I’m not surprised that this has turned into such a debate.
Allow me to point out a few things that seem to be commonly misunderstood:
1. Most fathers asking for more progressive policies on paternity leave don’t want this to play golf and watch sport at home at their employer’s expense. They want to get to know their new son or daughter and they want to help their wife (who may be bedridden after serious surgery).
2. Right now, in 2009, most mothers welcome this kind of involvement. This confirms that the family is a tight unit that does everything together and supports each other.
3. If you are a clock-watching worker that offers little more than your 9-5 of minimum input, then I can understand why your employer would be loathe to grant you paid time off. But some of us add real value at work.
4. The fact that the amount of paternity leave seems to be directly proportionate to the level of a country’s development says something about the direction we should be heading. Those who wish to remain in the old days are welcome to their opinions too, of course.
5. Men who aren’t (or don’t plan to become) fathers don’t belong in this debate.
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Firstly, let me say that this is not a debate thread. Its a thread to help me in what Im doing. If you are one of these ppl that think Im a wimp for wanting more time with my child, I feel so sorry for you and the future people you land up with. So sad to see how narrow minded people are. For those that had the idea that Im doing this for time off....sigh...I can only offer a sincere face palm in response. What gave you that idea? Im working this hard to get a few extra days time off to use my paternity leave to play golf or something? Are you kidding...are you ppl for real? Thank for the good laugh. Lastly...the reason why we are stuck with such poor paternity leave laws etc, and the stereotype that men arent interested in family etc seems like its because there are actually quite a few men who dont give a damn. Its clear by the responses. Again, I feel so sorry for you and I hope in time you will eventually open you eyes. So...to sum up...if you can help etc, please reply. If you have nothing decent to say, start your own thread....because maybe then someone will actually care about what you have to say. I sure as hell dont :d/ You are wasting my time reading through your garbage...be a man and respect MY decision and take it elsewhere.. I love how ppl hide behind their computers and reply as they do...nice feeling having dem big Kahonies!  rushdicpt wrote:Please email me rushdicpt at gmail dot com with updates on your campaign.
my partner and i (both male) plan to adopt in 2011. one of us works for the state, the other for media24. i am yet to properly investigate media24's policy re paternity leave, but i've had unofficial answers varying from "a few days" to "a few weeks".
while the thought of leaving baby at home after "mom's" tradition 3-month leave is traumatic enough (poor mommy!), the thought of both my partner and i returning to work after "a few days" or "a few weeks" of paternity leave is heartbreaking enough for us to think that one of us will have to quit our jobs if "a few days" or "a few weeks" is all we can get from our employers.
this discimination between mommy and daddy is clearly unconstitutional and i've been hoping someone would take up the fight. thankyou for doing so, and please keep me updated so that i can add my name to your case if we need to go that far!
surely in the case of two daddies/ two mommies, the two employers can communicate with each other and the two daddies/ two mommies can decide which one is going to take the extended maternity leave given to new moms?
No problem, Im planning on taking my findings etc to the HR head end of Jan. I will let you know what comes of it. If anyone wants the resources/information I have gathered, drop me an email and I will be more than happy to share details and what I find. Best of luck to you! Guest wrote:I agree that 3 days is a bit short for when your baby is born, keeping in mind that your wife will also need you a day or so before she gives birth?? ( As far as I know, the 3 days have been changed to 5 in the begining of the the year)
That said, keep the following in mind:
On a yearly basis your employer pays you your 12 monthly salaries + your bonus (this is also debatable as in most companies these days this is a given and not a performance bonus), thus receiving 13 paychecks a year.
Then you receive 21 days annual leave, 3/5 days family responsabilty leave, 36 days sick leave per 3 year cycle ( in effect giving you 12 days per year).
This means that the employer has to pay the employee for (21 + 3 + 12) = 36 days for which he is not at work!! That is more than a month and half of workdays!! So from an employers perspective it would be ludacris to add another 2/3/4 weeks pertinity leave to an employees leave cycle and still receive a 13 cheque!
I believe the solution lies with the sick leave as I can not remember when last I have been away from work for more than 2 days. 12 days per year/ 36 per 3 month cycle is to much, so if you could have less sickleave and more FRL, this could resolve the problem?????? Thats actually a very good point! Im not sickly...and we get a lot of sick days leave. Maybe thats something I bring up with them too, thanks for this. Guest wrote:Revive I hope you succeed with this. My daughter was born premature last week. I only got 3 days. She's gonna be in ICU for another 3 weeks - and I only get to see her once each week day (after work) :( --I'm saving my annual leave for when she's home... Thats not nice at all :( Best of luck to you!! I will be doing the same, using annual leave. We have no choice, hope she comes out soon. Guest wrote:I am all in favour of paternity leave AS LONG AS new dads don't use it as an excuse to park off at home and DO ACTUALLY help his wife with the baby. Sometimes having husbands at home is twice the amount of work as just having one little baby to look after eg What's with husbands staying at home on Women's Day? Yeah, read all the replies here. Its so sad to see this kinda mentality here. People actually do this with their paternity leave....so sad. Guest wrote:ESKOM has 14 days contingency leave annually, which can be used for partenity duties. The very same 14 days contingency leave is also used for other serious stuff like death in the family or child sickness. If 4 days are already used for maybe child sickness, that means only 10 days will be available for that year. The trick is if one is expecting a child in a certain year, one has to plan around those 14 days by maybe utilising the 21 days compulsory annual leave days for other seriouss stuff. if not used, the 14 days are forfeited and a new 14 day balance credited. You dont by any chance has this policy? Im still looking for an Eskom leave policy. Guest wrote:If your child birth is so important to you, why not sacrifice your annual leave, for this once in a lfe time event. Posted about this earlier, I am doing this. Problem is, Dec comes and I have hardly any annual leave then left for 1st Christmas with our child. Not lekker. Guest wrote:THis is such an interesting topic!
why not research what the uk gives as well? i know for maternity leave in the uk it is even close to 9 months!!! south africa is in the stone ages when it comes to this kind of thing. very sad.
a dad needs to be there! i am a mommy but would have loved to have had my husband with me during my materinty leave. especially in the beginning...
i think both the maternity and paternity benefits in South africa are shoking and need to be revised.... Yeah, I had a look overseas....thats actually what helped spark my interest in this and why Im doing this. Its not the main reason...but after reading about overseas policies etc...it helped me decide to go ahead and do this. manieverster wrote:Revive and all the other new daddies/to be,
Who is giving birth to this child? You or your wife? You are just going to be in her way all the time. Or maybe not. Maybe you've got something else planned and just need a couple of days of! In my days there were no paternity leave. Anyway I couldn't wait to get to work in the morning to get away from dirty diaphers and bottles and that screaming! Wow, you dunno what you let yourself in for. I love these "in my days" replies. So what, things dont change, technology doesnt progress, trends dont change? Cmon! Things now days are waaaaaay different to "your time". Fathers want to be a part of their lives etc. Doesnt seem to be the SA trend right now...think we still stuck in the stone ages...but thats the international trend. I did a lot of readying up on it before deciding to do this. Search on google...its a real eye opener! Im doing this because I want to be involved, my wife would like my help and I feel its the right thing to do supporting my wife and child and showing how much they mean to me. Got something else planned and take time off? No...as you can see...Im registered here and dont have the mentaility of the "guest" replies. You think Im doing all this work for a few days time off? You sir, are indeed stuck in "your days". This is your opinion...running away from diapers and bottles...please dont think Im like you. Guest wrote:Between the idiots trolling for arguments, the old-school chauvinists stuck in the 50’s and the hard-core moms who don’t need a man to do anything (except maybe pay the bills), I’m not surprised that this has turned into such a debate.
Allow me to point out a few things that seem to be commonly misunderstood:
1. Most fathers asking for more progressive policies on paternity leave don’t want this to play golf and watch sport at home at their employer’s expense. They want to get to know their new son or daughter and they want to help their wife (who may be bedridden after serious surgery).
2. Right now, in 2009, most mothers welcome this kind of involvement. This confirms that the family is a tight unit that does everything together and supports each other.
3. If you are a clock-watching worker that offers little more than your 9-5 of minimum input, then I can understand why your employer would be loathe to grant you paid time off. But some of us add real value at work.
4. The fact that the amount of paternity leave seems to be directly proportionate to the level of a country’s development says something about the direction we should be heading. Those who wish to remain in the old days are welcome to their opinions too, of course.
5. Men who aren’t (or don’t plan to become) fathers don’t belong in this debate.
Yeah...been a lot of narrow minded views here. Small minds...small thinking? Thanks for your input. To those that send me mails with policies...think I got 2 this weekend, thank you for your effort. If you can help me out with my cause...please see my first mail and send me info and policies. I will be eternally gratefull :d/
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